Andy Minton

GEORGE GILLIAM:     [00:00:00] It is July 28th, 2022.  Present are Andrew Minton, Phyllis Leffler, Lorenzo Dickerson and me, I’m George Gilliam.  And we are in the Albemarle Charlottesville Historical Society building in Downtown Charlottesville.  Andy, if I may call you Andy?

ANDY MINTON:   [00:00:25] Yes, sir.

GG:  [00:00:27] What was your date of birth?

AM:  [00:00:30] One, ten, forty-nine.

GG:  [00:00:34] Forty-nine?

AM:  [00:00:38] Mm-hmm.

GG:  [00:00:42] And what were your parent’s names?

AM:  [00:00:43] I’m Julius Andrew Minton, III, and my father was junior.  And my mother’s name was Laura [Jean?] Minton, M-I-N-T-O-N.

GG:  [00:00:52] I’m sorry, what is her name?

AM:  [00:00:55] Laura Jean.  Her maiden name was Daugherty, D-A-U-G-H-E-R-T-Y.  [00:01:00]

GG:  [00:01:05] Whereabouts in Albemarle County do they live?

AM:  [00:01:07] They lived in Woodbrook, a little out 29 North, just before you get to Carrsbrook.

GG:  [00:01:18] And which schools did you attend?

AM:  [00:01:20] In Albemarle County, just Albemarle.

GG:  [00:01:25] Where did you go to school before your family moved to Albemarle County?

AM:  [00:01:31] I went to Andrew Lewis High School in Salem, Virginia.

GG:  [00:01:44] And did Andrew Lewis High School have an athletic program?

AM:  [00:01:48] they sure did.  They won a number of state championships.  I was on one of those teams.

GG:  [00:01:53] And what position did you play?

AM:  [00:01:57] In high school, I started out as a pulling guard as a sophomore, on a state championship team, [00:02:00] but then ended up playing running back, and in those days, we played both ways, so I was a linebacker as well.

GG:  [00:02:06] What, did you play single wing, or --?

AM:  [00:02:08] We did not.  We played E. C. Glass in Lynchburg, and they were single wing forever.  High top shoes, and they had -- the first people that had those cage facemasks, and it’s amazing.

GG:  [00:02:24] The school that I went to, we had --

AM:  [00:02:24] Single wing?

GG:  [00:02:27] Single wing.  Whatever was old and broken and out of date, we had it. (laughter) So what caused you to come to Albemarle County and to Albemarle High School?

AM:  [00:02:45] My father went into business with a gentleman whose name was Ray Long, who owned Long Construction Company.  They were both VMI graduates.  Ray was several years ahead of my father, and so when that opportunity [00:03:00] came forth, we decided to move to Charlottesville.  Or they decided, and brought me along.

GG:  [00:03:06] And when did that transition occur?

AM:  [00:03:12] They moved here in the summer of ’65, but I stayed at Andrew Lewis through football season, so I came in November of ’65.

GG:  [00:03:20] So your first year, first and only year with football was ’66?

AM:  [00:03:28] At Albemarle?

GG:  [00:03:29] Yeah.

AM:  [00:03:30] Yes.  Their first undefeated team.  Lane was undefeated -- I mean, Albemarle was.  I think Rock Hill was, St. Howard -- it would have been Belfield in those days.  I even think Burley was undefeated.  They had a --

GG:  [00:03:54] They were unscorable.

AM:  [00:04:00] I know.  They had a nice -- the city did a really nice [00:04:00] sort of congratulatory get-together at old Lane Stadium, I don’t think they called it the “Lane Stadium,” but they had all the teams and cheerleaders and stuff.  It was really nice of that.

PHYLLIS LEFFLER:    [00:04:15] When was that?

AM:  [00:04:17] That would have been shortly after the ’66 season.  As I recall, it was still cold, so it was probably October, late October, November of ’65.  Excuse me, ’66.

GG:  [00:04:33] Sixty-six, yes.

PL:  [00:04:35] We hadn’t heard about that.

GG:  [00:04:36] No.

PL:  [00:04:37] And who, do you remember which teams would have been invited?  Were they --

AM:  [00:04:44] I think every high school was undefeated because none of us played each other.  It was very interesting.  And I think the city did it.  I don’t know who else would have done it, because we were at the Lane High School at the time.  It was a very nice gathering.

PL:[00:05:00]  So [00:05:00] if I could just follow up on this, because this is the first we’ve heard of this.

AM:  [00:05:02] Yes, ma’am?

PL:  [00:05:05] So you think it included Lane, Albemarle, Rock Hill, and Burley?

AM:  [00:05:13] Burley, yes, ma’am.  And it could have been Bill (inaudible), I can’t remember.  I mean, it was every high school in this immediate area who was invited.

PL:  [00:05:21] So private and public schools?

AM:  [00:05:28] Yes.

PL:  [00:05:28] That’s fascinating.  I’d love to be able to learn more about that.

GG:  [00:05:33] I think we can probably find something about it.  What did you do as a student at Albemarle, besides go to class?

AM:  [00:05:48] I was, as I mentioned earlier, I wasn’t exactly excited about the move, and I found out that Albemarle High School was far advanced to Andrew [00:06:00] Lewis High School in Salem, so I struggled initially.  I came and had to take Latin; I’d been taking Latin in Salem, and I was so far behind I had to repeat my junior year, a semester and a half, so I was able to complete Latin the following year, as a senior.  So it was a little bit of a struggle.  I mean, I was very concerned about myself, more so than maybe what was going on around me at the time.  My family was struggling financially, which was another reason why we ended up in Charlottesville.  And it was just a very strange time.  But I tried to participate.  I ran track as well.  I was in a couple of clubs, probably the Latin Club, if there was such a thing.

GG:  [00:06:59] Did they force you to sit out for a year after your transfer?  [00:07:00]

AM:  [00:07:02] No.  Not at all.  I don’t think that -- I don’t know when that would have happened.  I mean, I finished my junior season in Salem, so I was academically okay and just went ahead into my senior season, just like I normally would.

GG:  [00:07:17] It happened in Charlottesville.

AM:  [00:07:20] Oh, you’re kidding.  I did not know that.

GG:  [00:07:23] Yeah.

AM:  [00:07:24] I didn’t know that.

GG:  [00:07:28] When a Black person wanted to move to Lane from Burley, they had to sit out for a year.

AM:  [00:07:37] Oh, my.  What was the reasoning, do you know?

GG:  [00:07:43] I think they were wanting to not -- we’ve heard from several people that one of the great problems that everybody worried about was having their child pushed aside by a better player from the merging school, or the --

AM:  [00:07:58] Interesting.

GG:  [00:07:58] -- emergent school. [00:08:00] So if you were a Burley student who wanted to go to Lane to get the academic training, you were not allowed to apply for one year.

AM:  [00:08:14] Oh, wow.  That’s the first I’ve heard of that.  And it may have happened, because I think I told you that we had one Black player at Albemarle, but I think he was a sophomore or junior when I was a senior.  And I -- once again, I guess I was oblivious to some of those things.

PL:  [00:08:37] We have not heard that it happened at Albemarle, the requirement to sit out.

GG:  [00:08:40] Right.

AM:  [00:08:42] I’m trying to remember who --

PL:  [00:08:43] But we heard that it happened at Lane.

AM:  [00:08:45] I can’t remember the name of the head coach at Burley at the time, but he ended up as an athletic director or something at Albemarle, there.

GG:  [00:08:51] I think so.

AM:  [00:08:53] And I had the opportunity to meet him, really fine man.  It was -- yeah, [00:09:00] very strange.

GG:  [00:09:02] What other activities did you participate in at Albemarle?

AM:  [00:09:10] At Albemarle?  It was mostly sports-oriented.  I was a little bit shy at the time.  I think I was pulled into some things by other athletes that I participated with, but, you know, talking about making someone stay out a year because they didn’t want their kid being replaced -- well, I always wanted to start, so I was going to work harder than anybody else.  I mean, I was a very driven child.  At the time, I figured without a scholarship, I might not be going to college.  And once I got to college, it’s the same thing, new kids were coming in every year, recruiting.  I’m not going to let someone beat me out.

GG:  [00:09:51] Well, you had a great history at Albemarle.  Who recruited you?

AM:  [00:09:58] To Albemarle?

GG:  [00:09:59] From Albemarle to -- [00:10:00]

AM:  [00:10:00] University?

GG:  [00:10:03] To university level?

AM:  [00:10:03] Have you ever heard of a gentleman named Zeke Fantina?

GG:  [00:10:06] Yes.

AM:  [00:10:06] Zeke was the chief recruiter for George Blackburn.  His wife was my English teacher at Albemarle. (laughs) And so but I knew Coach Blackburn, because he had twins who had gone to Albemarle, who’d finished the year before I came, I think.  And they were on the football team at Virginia.  And I don’t know why my parents settled in the county.  I don’t really know.

GG:  [00:10:35] So what did you expect when you decided to come to UVA?  Why did you select UVA for --?

AM:  [00:10:47] I had a dear friend who has just retired as an attorney in Richmond.  He was a quarterback at Andrew Lewis.  He actually came to the university on an academic scholarship.  [00:11:00] Gene was -- his name is Gene [Webb?].  He was sort of -- he started for Andrew Lewis as a freshman, started for four years in high school, a quarterback.  Excellent intellect, fine human being.  I always admired him.  Sort of one of the reasons my daddy gone to VMI, I think I broke his heart when I didn’t go to VMI, but it was Vietnam at the time.  I had different schools recruiting me when I was in Salem versus who recruited me when I was at Albemarle.  Interesting.

GG:  [00:11:48] So did you have any history of having played with African American students?

AM:  [00:11:53] We did.  We played against them more than with them.  They came to Virginia my fourth year, that was Kent [00:12:00] and that group -- great kids.  Stanley Land .  I can’t remember the other child, but Harrison Davis was one as well who was a quarterback.  A really fine athlete.  And of course Kent was a world class sprinter.  They brought all that to the program.

GG:  [00:12:24] So was there any racial tension that you were able to detect?  Was there waving of the confederate flag, or were there any of that kind of stuff going on?

AM:  [00:12:38] You know, that’s an interesting question, George.  It would have been in the locker room if they were doing it at half-time, or something.  I don’t recall that happening.  And as I indicated to you earlier, I’m embarrassed that I wasn’t more attuned to what was going on at that particular time.  Being a fourth year, I’m just thinking about finishing up, and they’re coming in as freshmen, [00:13:00] or first-years, I should say.  And they played on a freshman team, so they were sort of like our dummies; they would run opposing teams, offenses and defenses, and that’s who we practiced against.  But they were clearly superior athletes.

GG:  [00:13:19] Did you have any to practice with?

AM:  [00:13:22] Only in that regard.  I mean, Maryland had already integrated, Carolina had players, Universities of North Carolina, I think NC State did.  We played Purdue University, and they definitely -- they had many fine athletes who were actually first-round draft picks.  And but it wasn’t -- hell, I’m playing a football game, I put my pads on the same way they put the pads on, and I wasn’t really looking at it from any other standpoint.

GG:  [00:13:56] So retrospectively, [00:14:00] what is your -- what are you proudest of from your career at UVA, either as a football player, or as a student?

AM:  [00:14:18] Went through some interesting times.  I mean, I’m proud of myself for being pretty much adaptive.  We went through the Kent State strikes in ’69, where they cancelled all classes because of bomb threats every day, co-education at the university, because Mary Washington at the time was the university’s female campus.  It was a little bit chaotic.  We went from beer drinking fraternity parties to kids getting high on alternate substances.

GG:  [00:14:51] At Virginia?

AM:  [00:14:53] At Virginia, I know.  It was sort of a bittersweet end.  If you’d have asked [00:15:00] me that when I was 21 or 22 -- not even that, if I were 19 or 20, I would tell you I was having the best time in my life, and in the end it was very strange, and different.

PL:  [00:15:12] Can you tell us how it was strange and different?

AM:  [00:15:18] Well, to see Jerry Kunstler -- or Jerry Rubin and Kunstler and the Chicago Seven come to Charlottesville and threaten to burn down Carr’s Hill.  They had sit-ins in front of University Hall, also down on Emmet Street and University Avenue.  We were forbidden as athletes to participate in anything, or they threatened us with taking our scholarships.  But about 15 of us were standing over near the chapel when they were having a sit-in in front of the Rotunda, in the street.  Busses started pulling up with National Guardsmen.  [00:16:00] And you’d see a student jump over the wall and run by us, and then another one, and then five.  And we thought -- and then all of a sudden, everyone was coming over.  So we ended up running around the Rotunda and down the Lawn, and barricaded ourselves in one of the senior’s rooms on the lawn, because they were kicking doors in and dragging them off and arresting them.  I can’t remember, a hundred and something were arrested that night.  They weren’t going to get in that room, we had so much beef against that door.  But it was, like, what just happened?  I mean, the whole atmosphere in Virginia changed.  Very surreal.  So like I said, by the time I finished, my memories weren’t quite as fond.  I mean, we didn’t even pledge a fraternity brother one year during that time.  And I was an [00:17:00] in SAE, which is a fairly deep Southern fraternity; lots of Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta boys.  And we didn’t even pledge anybody.  So it was sort of strange.

GG:  [00:17:13] Huh!

AM:  [00:17:15] Very strange.

GG:  [00:17:16] Phyllis, do you have other questions?

PL:  [00:17:19] Yeah.  Do you remember feeling hostile to the people who were protesting the war?

AM:  [00:17:25] I had a lot of friends who were protesting.  I didn’t feel hostile, I mean, that’s why we were there watching.  I mean, it was -- here I am, I’m about to get a degree, and I’m so ignorant on so many of these issues, because it was a very Southern institute in those days.  I mean, I wasn’t in Political Science or anything, I was an Economics major.  But it was just a very different time.

PL:  [00:17:56] So if I could go back to the football team, [00:18:00] in your fourth years, you said, which we know was the year when the initial Black athletes came and desegregated the team --

AM:  [00:18:12] Yes.

PL:  [00:18:14] -- do you remember anything being said to members of the team in advance of that, about the fact that the team was going to be bringing in Black players and that, you know --

AM:  [00:18:26] I don’t think communications were that good in those days.  We were given a summer workout, and we’d just better come back in shape.  But since I lived in Charlottesville, I knew that they were coming -- I knew Kent was, because he played at Lane, and even though I was finished high school, I mean.  And I was telling George in a conversation, I became pretty close with Stanley Land, he’s one of the finest men I’ve ever met.  Just a big teddy bear, for a big fellow.  No, it was just like any other [00:19:00] day.  But what’s embarrassing, I didn’t put myself in their place.  I mean, they may have been the first four at all, I don’t know.  I’m sure there were Black students before they came, but they hadn’t integrated any teams yet.

PL:  [00:19:18] There were some Black students who would come in ones and twos.

AM:  [00:19:22] Really?

PL:  [00:19:22] It wasn’t -- I mean, (inaudible) said, well, there were people who came to the professional schools, like the School of Education and to the law school.

AM:  [00:19:33] And maybe Darden, I --

PL:  [00:19:34] -- Famous case of Gregory Swanson, you know, who left UVA after a year.  But those were people who came with advanced degrees already.

AM:  [00:19:42] Already.

PL:  [00:19:44] They weren’t sort of integrated into graduate school.

AM:  [00:19:47] Sure.

PL:  [00:19:48] And then there were African American students who came to the School of Engineering --

AM:  [00:19:51] Interesting.

PL:  [00:19:53] -- because there was no comparable program in the state, and state law required UVA to take people who qualified -- [00:20:00]

AM:  [00:20:00] Yes, ma’am.

PL:  [00:20:01] -- who didn’t have an alternative program that they could go to.  But there were, I mean, by the time you came, there would have been a few students in the college, but very few.  And I think you’re right, that the teams didn’t get desegregated until later.

AM:  [00:20:23] And the way it was, we were so separate from the student body, anyway.  I mean, obviously we were all in McCormick Road dorms, because that’s what was there.  And then we had the new dorms up on Alderman, and most of those had been torn down, they were the new dorms when I was there.  But they put suites of 10 athletes, and you could only have two suites of 10 in any building.  And they would keep us separated by a floor, too.  And, you know, if I wasn’t there, I was at University Hall.  Then we all ate at Newcomb Hall.  Then we’d go back for films and studying, things [00:21:00] like that.  It was almost like we were totally separate from the university.  Only because of my fraternity did I really know what was going on socially, because we didn’t have women.  Yeah, very strange time.

PL:  [00:21:17] In general, what do you remember about the Civil Rights Movement?  I mean, you know, Brown versus Board of Education gets decided in ’54, you know?

AM:  [00:21:27] Well, I think I told George once before, I mean, I grew up in Roanoke and Salem, and they had Black high schools.  And Salem was a very, very small town; everyone knew everybody’s business.  It’s like the old Peyton Place, type thing.  And, you know, I just was -- we’d go over and watch Addison and Carver play, because those kids were just incredible.  The bands were better than what we had.  It was fantastic sports.

PL:  [00:21:58] So you went over to [00:22:00] watch the sports at the Black high school?

AM:  [00:22:03] Right, well, they would play at the same stadium we played at.  We played Friday nights, and I think they’d play Saturday nights, or vice versa.

PL:  [00:22:11] And do you know offhand, when those schools in Salem would have been integrated?

AM:  [00:22:17] There were some Black students while I was at Andrew Lewis.  Not a lot, but there probably was maybe a dozen.  The Black high school was, like, two blocks away.

GG:  [00:22:36] My class of ’68, the law school, one Black.

AM:  [00:22:39] Really?

GG:  [00:22:42] Mm-hmm.  And one woman.

PL:  [00:22:47] So you didn’t really think too much about the Civil Rights Movement, it sounds like.  You were just doing your own thing.

AM:  [00:22:53] I was doing my own thing.  Chasing women and playing sports, and studying.  [00:23:00] (laughs) Well, it was a different time.  It was -- you know, the South -- I’m really -- people in Salem were wonderful, and I had friends of every race and creed.  I do now.  I mean, so it’s -- that’s what’s embarrassing, because I just probably wasn’t paying attention close enough.

PL:  [00:23:29] Well, I’m not sure you should be embarrassed by it.

AM:  [00:23:33] No, but I mean, I --

PL:  [00:23:34] I think younger people are pretty self-absorbed during those years, and how things sort of follow some of what they learn from their families.

AM:  [00:23:44] But I’ve never had a negative experience.  I just -- it didn’t happen.  I mean, I think the closest thing -- I mean, you asked me if I had animosity towards people protesting -- if I’m not mistaken, wasn’t [00:24:00] Sabato in school about that time?

PL:  [00:24:00] Yes.

GG:  [00:24:02] Yeah, I think he was.

AM:  [00:24:05] Was he head of the SDS?  Students for Democratic Society?

PL:  [00:24:08] I don’t know if he was head of it, but I know he had a large role to play in developing student support for a variety of things; one of them was the creation of an undergraduate library.  He was very involved in that.

AM:  [00:24:26] Well, I mean, he was a very impressive person.

PL:  [00:24:29] Yeah.

AM:  [00:24:31] I’m sure I’ve met him.  I don’t know him personally, but he’s a name that stood out at the time.  He was sort of maybe a lightning rod for things.  But once again, I mean, I was just trying to graduate and not lose my scholarships, and --

PL:  [00:24:45] What did you major in?

AM:  [00:24:45] Economics.

PL:  [00:24:48] That’s a serious major.

AM:  [00:24:49] Well, yeah.  I mean, I would have loved to have been in Accounting, or something like that.  But in those days, you were only allowed three cuts, and we’d missed five to six Fridays traveling for football.  So my [00:25:00] advisor said, “Economics would be the best thing for you.”

PL:  [00:25:06] Do you remember when Edgar Shannon --

AM:  [00:25:08] Absolutely.

PL:  [00:25:07] -- came out and addressed the students about the incursion to Cambodia?  I mean, a lot of what you described in terms of the student protests and (inaudible) --

AM:  [00:25:19] Well, he was the president at the time.  And he would -- he’s a nice man.  He would bring his wife and the kids to the first few days of practices, and so we’d all get to meet him, and not really interact with him that much, but it was -- I thought that was really pretty interesting.  I sort of remember it.  But once again, the media in those days was different than the media today.  I mean, there would be -- I mean, we had the Cavalier Daily, but I’d get it every day.  You know, I’d take it up on the newsstand, or somewhere.  But yeah, there was a lot of political stuff.  [00:26:00] I just tried not to get involved that way.

PL:  [00:26:05] So do you remember when you were playing football, do you remember anything about what the stands looked like?  Was -- do Black people come to the games at UVA, in support of the team?

AM:  [00:26:23] In those days, you’d count -- you’d look at the empty seats and pretend that there were people, because, I mean, we might draw 13,000 for a game.  I mean, it’s a different time.  And it was the old stadium.  The one crowd I remember was at Purdue and there were a lot of Black individuals there, the Big Ten.  Well, the Big Ten was the Big Ten.  Lowly Virginia goes up there and -- I’ll tell you a quick story.  I was just so happy to make the traveling squad.  I’m 19 years old, and they hadn’t really even settled [00:27:00] on a position for me.  So I’m sitting there and I’m watching the Golden Girl -- you may not know who the Golden Girl, she was the head majorette -- everyone in the stands was dressed in corduroy gold slacks and black shirts of some type, because they’re gold and black.  And there must have been, oh my, 150,000 people.  And I’m watching the Golden Girl, and the coach calls my name.  And I literally wet my pants. (laughter) What in the world?  I’d only played behind two positions; one was a gentleman named Peter Schmidt -- you probably know Peter, he’s head of the Jefferson Society now and chief fundraiser.  He was a walk-on.  His father had been a national boxing champion here at Virginia in the late ’40s.  I went in for Peter.  He looked at me like -- he had already -- he was having a great game.  [00:28:00] This was about four, five minutes in.  So I go out, and Purdue had a quarterback, his name was Mike Phipps.  He played in the pros for years.  Tim Foley, Chuck Kyle -- all these great players.  So Phipps comes up to the line, calls an audible, and they get me for a five-yard out pattern right there.  I mean, he had just ate my lunch.  So Peter comes in right after the play, and he goes, “Get outta here!”  So I go over to the sideline.  And my coach was a gentleman named Don Lawrence, who ended up being the head coach after Blackburn was fired.  And he grabs me by the face mask, he goes, “Sit down!  I don’t have time for sophomores.”

GG:  [00:28:40] Oh!

AM:  [00:28:39] And I thought, well, there you go, you just totally blew the whole deal.  So about four plays later, he calls me again.  And the only other player was a middle linebacker.  So I went in for Possum [Paige?] -- his nickname was “Possum” -- well, he was calling all the defensive plays.  And so I go in there, and they audible a draw play right [00:29:00] over me.  And their guard in front of me, here I am probably 195 pounds, the guard was, like, 265.  His nickname was Big Boo. (laughter) So once again, and he goes, “Get out of here, men, you’re not supposed to be in here.”  So a couple of plays later, our left quarterback, he was a Charlottesville boy, a boy named David Turner, who was killed in a hunting accident, oh, 40 years ago here in town, he keeps going for Turner, “T-U-R-N-E-R” -- he had me by the face mask -- so I went in there, I started from then on.  But it was overwhelming.  I’d never seen anything like that spectacle and those athletes.  We were so far in the dark ages, compared to them.

GG:  [00:29:52] You know, Kent Merritt sang that same song.

AM:  [00:29:55] Well, they played people like Michigan and Texas.

GG:  [00:29:59] Yeah.

AM:  [00:29:59] They always [00:30:00] put some big revenue game on the schedule every year, because you weren’t making much money in the conference in those days.  And no one was filling stadiums, really, except for the Clemson’s.

PL:  [00:30:16] Are there other people here in Charlottesville, either people you went to at Albemarle, or people at UVA who you think we should be talking to about this project?

AM:  [00:30:31] I was telling George of two people.  Jim Blackburn, who was Coach Blackburn’s son, he’s doing something similar right now.  And he --

GG:  [00:30:40] We have him.

AM:  [00:30:42] You have him?  I guess he was telling me how -- and I didn’t realize this -- how difficult it was for his father to determine that we needed to integrate, and to, I guess, break it to the Athletic Department.  And he talked to me recently.  But that, once again, as I told George, that was [00:31:00] so late in my career.  Brock Strickler, who played at Lane, Brock worked in one of the city departments, Water and Sewer, or something.  He worked at City Hall for years and years, he’s retired, local.  He was involved in integration at Lane.  And he tells stories about, they went to play someone in Richmond, and it was ugly.  I mean, riots and things like that.  Then no one wanted to play Lane because they had Black players.  I didn’t know the situation in Richmond.  I’m 73, Brock’s probably 75 or 76, maybe 77.  I mean, he was involved when they closed the schools and when they went to first press, or wherever, to have classes.  But that was before I moved here.  [00:32:00]

PL:  [00:32:02] So do you -- are you in contact with him?

AM:  [00:32:05] Sure.  I think he’d love to do it.

GG:  [00:32:06] Yeah, probably would.

PL:  [00:32:07] I’ve heard his name before, but you’ve sort of given us some information (inaudible).

AM:  [00:32:13] He’s a great guy.  I mean, he was very adamant about helping those players as best he could.  The whole team sort of surrounded them and tried to -- well, they were teammates.  His stories are quite interesting.  Very interesting.  I’ll call him for you.

PL:  [00:32:33] Could you do that?

AM:  [00:32:33] I’ll be happy to.

PL:  [00:32:35] Just tell him that we’re okay people.

AM:  [00:32:37] Absolutely.  Absolutely.  Absolutely.

GG:  [00:32:42] Yeah, it makes it easier if you’ve got somebody who vouches for us.

AM:  [00:32:48] Well, he played with some great players at Lane, because that was that long winning streak.  One of the players went, and was a starter at Virginia Tech as a defensive end for years.  And two or three of those players played --

GG:  [00:33:00] Is [00:33:00] that George Foussekis?

AM:  [00:33:01] Foussekis.

GG:  [00:33:03] We got him.

AM:  [00:33:04] You got him?  So they’re all very close friends.

PL:  [00:33:07] Great.  So we would love his contact information.

AM:  [00:33:11] And his perspective will be different, because he feels like they ran him off the football program, because he ended up dropping a scholarship, dropping out of the university, going into the military and then coming back and finishing later.  He has a very interesting perspective.   But that’s his high school -- or his college perspective, but his perspective that we’ve talked about at great length was his high school experiences.

PL:  [00:33:38] He sounds just perfect.

AM:  [00:33:40] No, he’s talking about Douglas Freeman, all these -- I mean, how difficult it was.

GG:  [00:33:45] Yeah.  After you talk to him, give me a holler if you would.

AM:  [00:33:46] I will.  I will, indeed.

GG:  [00:33:51] Tell us who -- what his email is, or a phone, or whatever he uses.

AM:  [00:33:54] Yeah.  I’ll be happy to do that.

GG:  [00:33:57] String and a tin can. (laughter)  [00:34:00]

PL:  [00:34:03] So aside from Brock, are there others that you can think of?

AM:  [00:34:12] Well, I think he’s -- I know you’ve talked to [David] Sloan, but Sloan is younger than I am.

GG:  [00:34:18] Sloan has been very much a part of this.

AM:  [00:34:20] And his dad was a police officer during that time, as George mentioned to me.  So I’m sure he had a lot of input as a youngster.  But it was just -- I go to Albemarle and finish -- I didn’t know about the problems in Charlottesville until I was older.

PL:  [00:34:39] Sure.  That makes sense.

AM:  [00:34:40] I mean, it was, like, the first place in the state, wasn’t it, where they had issues?

GG:  [00:34:42] Mm-hmm.

AM:  [00:34:43] Why do you think?  Because of the university?  Don’t know?

GG:  [00:34:49] Yeah.

AM:  [00:34:51] I don’t know.

PL:  [00:34:53] So what do you mean, it’s the first place in the state that had issues?

AM:  [00:34:56] Well, I think they had riots and things here, did they not, in the fifties?

GG:  [00:34:58] Yeah, they --

AM:  [00:35:00] Because [00:35:00] they closed the schools.  I mean, I’m all --

GG:  [00:35:03] They closed the schools, two of our local ones.

AM:  [00:35:04] Right.  I don’t know if Albemarle was closed.  But I know we didn’t play --

GG:  [00:35:07] No, Albemarle was not closed.

AM:  [00:35:12] -- we did not play them because of those issues.

PL:  [00:35:12] Right.  Right.

AM:  [00:35:14] And that would have been middle ’60s.

GG:  [00:35:19] Yeah.

PL:  [00:35:20] Do you -- what would you say were the differences from your perspective, if any, between Andrew Lewis High School and Albemarle High School, just in general?  Was there a different picture?  Were there different --

AM:  [00:35:35] Salem was a small town, more rural.  I mean, Roanoke County’s a big county.  Let’s see, I moved to Albemarle County, and I thought, man, I’d really moved into the middle of nowhere.  I mean, I didn’t know anything about the City of Charlottesville.  I knew about Lane High School, just because of their reputation.  And I was sort of upset that my parents didn’t try to get me there so I could play there; for whatever reason, they moved to the county.  [00:36:00] I don’t know.  I mean, the university had a lot of influence in this town.  Good and bad, I’m sure.  But I was just so happy to be able to go on a full ride and play the sport I really enjoyed, and sort of, I guess, let chips fall where they may.

PL:  [00:36:26] For sure.

AM:  [00:36:27] Yes, ma’am.

AM:  [00:36:31] Do you have anything?

LORENZO DICKERSON:  [00:36:32] No.  No.

GG:  [00:36:34] Thank you, sir.

AM:  [00:36:37] You’re welcome.

PL:  [00:36:37] Yeah, thank you very much.

AM:  [00:36:38] I don’t know that I imparted anything to you or not.

PL:  [00:36:40] Everyone imparts something.

AM:  [00:36:42] Yes, ma’am.  Well, thank you for having me.

PL:  [00:36:46] All these different perspectives, you know, add up over time to a picture of what life was like, and I think we do know that it’s different for different people.

AM:  [00:36:59] Yeah, I mean, it’s just like I told George, I don’t [00:37:00] think I’m cerebral enough.  I just didn’t -- I was too worried about Andy to worry about someone else at the time.

PL:  [00:37:09] Well, you had a big change that you made.

AM:  [00:37:11] Well, I did, but --

PL:  [00:37:14] And you were only at the high school here for one year.

AM:  [00:37:14] Yes, ma’am.

PL:  [00:37:18] That’s not enough time to really --

AM:  [00:37:17] I mean, I go to reunions, I don’t know who anybody is, because I just -- I was fairly reclusive, and I knew the 43 kids on the football team, and that was about it.

PL:  [00:37:29] Well, I don’t go to high school reunions.

AM:  [00:37:31] I don’t either.  I went to one.  And it was, like -- and funny thing about Albemarle’s reunions, nobody locally comes back.  It’s all the people that moved away.  So I was, like, the only townie at my fiftieth.

 

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