Darlene Quarles Robinson

Darlene Quarles

 

PHYLLIS LEFFLER: [00:00:00] Well, welcome and thank you so much for agreeing to be here with us today.  I really appreciate it.  We all do.  

DARLENE QUARLES ROBINSON: [00:00:07] You’re welcome.  

PL: [00:00:08] My name is Phyllis Leffler.  I’m here at the historical society [Albemarle County Historical Society] with Darlene Quarles Robinson.  Today is the 15th of July.  With me are George Gilliam and Lorenzo Dickerson.  I’m going to start out by getting some basic things on the record.  As we were explaining to you, this project is about race and sports and the history of desegregation, but we can’t really understand that history unless we go back in time a little bit more just to learn a little bit more about where you lived and what some of your early experiences were like so we’re going to start there.  So, I’d like to start out by just -- could you tell us your date of birth? 

DQR: [00:00:55] December 21st, 1952.  

PL: [00:01:00] Okay, 1952.  And where did you grow up in this area and if you had multiple places maybe you could tell us about that too? 

DQR: [00:01:09] I grew up in what was then known as Cobham, Virginia which is next to Cismont, Virginia.  Both are on Route 22 which has now become Keswick, Virginia.  I grew up in two places.  Off of 22, there is a dirt road that has now since been named Quarles Lane.  It runs down through my family’s property and is considered the right of way to people who have bought property behind us.  Part of the road has grown over since the old homeplace is really deep in the woods.  It’s somewhere near [00:02:00] Merrie Mill Farms if you are familiar with that.  Then my parents built a house closer to Route 22 which is the house that we’ve been living in ever since.  I do remember making long treks and walking up to 22 to catch the bus from the house that we lived in back in the woods.  I couldn’t tell you how many miles, but it was a walk to get to 22 to catch the bus.  So that’s where I grew up.  So, we pretty much live in the same area.  

PL: [00:02:32] Same area, so just from house deeper in the woods to another house… 

DQR: [00:02:36] To another house up closer to 22, yes.  

PL: [00:02:40] Was there a community there that you were involved in? 

DQR: [00:02:45] Well, we were involved and attended Zion Hill Baptist Church which is on 22 which is in walking distance of my house which is how we went to church and Sunday School.  Zion Hill, which is across from Merrie Mill Farm.  Zion Hill Baptist Church.

PL: [00:03:00] Okay.  So, you were regular church goers in your family? 

DQR: [00:03:03] Yes.  

PL: [00:03:07] And what do you remember about what kind of dynamics at that church? Were people talking about what was going on in terms of race or was it mostly just a community of people who liked getting together? 

DQR: [00:03:23] In the beginning, because I was really young then, but once I was a teenager, yes it was a place where you talked about -- where the preacher talked about politics and voting.  I do remember that.  Dr.  R.A.  Johnson was pastor most of the time I attended the church, and he was a great proponent of expressing himself concerning civil rights, things that impacted the community.  

PL: [00:03:49] What was his message? 

DQR: [00:03:52] Well, his message was that we needed to get out and vote.  We needed to become involved in things that were going on [00:04:00], and we needed to show that we were just as human as white people were.  So, he was a proponent of joining the society.  

PL: [00:04:21] Did you feel like that had a particular impact on you and members of your family or were you already… 

DQR: [00:04:28] No, I don’t think it had a great impact on my family.  My family had a great respect for educations.  So, I know neither of my parents graduated from high school.  I was the first one to graduate from college -- to go to college and graduate from college in my household.  But my dad was an [00:05:00] avid reader.  My dad, I know he was in the military, so he was a little more worldly-wise than my mother.  She was a homemaker in the area.  She was a stay-at-home mom, as far as I can remember, the entire time.  Especially in the elementary and middle school years and then once I became a teenager, she became more wanting to go out and work to get to have transportation.  The only transportation we had was Mr. Van Yahres’s truck because that’s who my dad worked for, was Mitchell Van Yahres, tree surgeon service.  So, she was a stay-at-home, and we as kids, we pretty much played with one another, or she had [00:06:00] a sister who lived up the road from us and we played with those kids.  So that was our socialization.  It was just that little area of kids.  We played together, and we went to church.  That’s pretty much it.  And once in a while, we’d get a trip to Charlottesville to go to the grocery store.  At that time, it was Reid’s Grocery Store.  

PL: [00:06:23] Yes, there still is a Reid’s Market.  

DQR: [00:06:25] Okay, but it’s not located at the end of Main Street.  The grocery store that we used to go to was at the end of Main Street across from where the parking garage is now.  That was a grocery store.  I thought it was Calhoun’s Grocery store but that’s where it was located.  

PL: [00:06:42] And what kind of things did you play? Did you play sports? 

DQR: [00:06:44] As kids, at first it was just the four of us, so it was two against two.  Dodgeball, kickball, sometimes softball and hopscotch.  I remember hopscotch a lot.  

PL: [00:07:00] But you were one of four siblings? 

DQR: [00:07:02] Yes, in the beginning.  I’m now one of nine.  One has passed, so I’m one of eight at this point.  I am the oldest.  

PL: [00:07:14] So one of your parents remarried then? 

DQR: [00:07:17] No.  

PL: [00:07:17] No.  Oh, at the time --

DQR: [00:07:21] They’ve been married the whole time.  (laughs) 

PL: [00:07:25] Okay there just kept being more children, adding to the family.  

DQR: [00:07:25] Yes well, there was a break there and then there were more children.  

PL: [00:07:30] Oh, I see.  

DQR: [00:07:30] The first four of us are a year a     part, then there was a break, then the next, there are a set of twins.  The youngest are a set of twins.  The next set were like two years apart.  

PL: [00:07:43] That’s a lot of kids.  

DQR: [00:07:43] Yes.  

PL: [00:07:45] So did you have a lot of responsibilities? 

DQR: [00:07:47] Yes, I was pretty much the babysitter.  Especially on Fridays when my parents would go to do the grocery shopping.  [00:08:00] They usually took the boy, my brother James, he’d go with them, and I would remain as the babysitter for the rest of the kids.  

PL: [00:08:10] I think when we talked by phone, you told me the truck story, about bringing the truck home on weekends.  So can you tell us a little more about… 

DQR: [00:08:20] Bringing what truck home? 

PL: [00:08:20] I thought you said the only transportation… 

DQR: [00:08:23] Yes, so he would bring -- that was his method of getting back and forth to work.  We didn’t have a car until later on.  It was our only source of transportation, but I always remember that Van Yahres’ Toyota red, white truck.  That was the mode of transportation.  Then somewhere along the line, we purchased a car and used a car.  

PL: [00:08:48] What kind of work did your dad do for Van Yahres? 

DQR: [00:08:51] He was a tree surgeon.  

PL: [00:08:53] A tree surgeon.  Climbing up, removing limbs?

DQR: [00:08:57] Climbing up and removing limbs.  In fact, we have a [00:09:00] picture of him doing that at the University of Virginia.  My father trimming trees.  

PL: [00:09:07] That’s tough work.  Do you have any idea how he learned how to do that? 

DQR: [00:09:11] Oh, I just know that once he -- from what I can understand, my father is a veteran of the Korean War, so when he came home, I guess that’s one of the jobs he was able to get.  

PL: [00:09:24] Maybe, that’s right.  So, in terms of schooling, you went to what elementary school?  

DQR: [00:09:33] I went to Rose Hill Elementary School from grades one through six.  

PL: [00:09:38] And so, you’d be picked up by bus? 

DQR: [00:09:39] Yes.  By bus.  

PL: [00:09:43] Okay, and that was an all-Black school, right? 

DQR: [00:09:44] Yes.  

PL: [00:09:46] Do you remember anything specific about your experiences there? Do you remember good teachers? 

DQR: [00:09:54] There were good teachers.  They were fairly strict with us, the teachers.  I do remember [00:10:00] in the first grade, I almost failed the first grade because I told you before, I was very shy.  I almost failed because I would not read aloud and that was the only way you could tell that the person knew how to read, so I had some trouble overcoming that.  In fact, they had to talk to my mother about it, and she told him that I could read, so I don’t know why I had a hard time expressing myself orally, but finally I read orally and was able to pass on to the next grade.  I remember, that’s the thing I associate with my early years in school, and from then on, I loved to read.  To this day, people will tell you, you’ll find my head in a book reading some story.  

PL: [00:10:51] And probably one you’re holding in your hands.  

DQR: [00:10:52] Yes, I do the Kindle only when I have to.  (laughs) Because you know when you go on a [00:11:00] plane trip, that’s less bulkier than taking four or five books, so you can use the Kindle for that.  

PL: [00:11:08] My grandchild reads everything on Kindle, and she’s an avid reader.  Her other grandmother gave her a Kindle at one point, so that’s the way she reads.  

DQR: [00:11:18] Well, Kindle is fine for young eyes.  I find that as I age, there’s a lot more squinting going on when I’m trying to read a Kindle and I really have to make the words big.  You want them big so you can see them.  I do that. 

PL: [00:11:37] All right, so were there sports-related things in elementary school or activities that you were involved in through the sixth grade or was it mostly studying and going home? 

DQR: [00:11:48] It was mostly studying and going home because at that time, to be involved -- I don’t know if there were extracurricular activities to be involved in [00:12:00] because you needed someone to pick you up.  That was not a strong suit.  I don’t know about other families, but for my family, my dad worked and like I said, his transportation was also part of his job.  At that time, I knew my mother didn’t drive, so it was not like anyone could come and pick you up.  So, any activities that were going on in school I’m sure I participated in.  I remember the maypole something or other going on at the elementary school.  It was a big deal.  The maypole dance and whatever.  I remember having a flute class.  I wasn’t very good at it, but music class was learning how to play the flute.  That’s what I remember about elementary school.  (laughs)

PL: [00:12:49] If you ask me what I remember, I’m not sure I could do that.  

DQR: [00:12:51] I do remember riding the bus and when you’d pass a bus full of white kids, there would be a couple that would stick their tongues out at us.  

PL: [00:13:00] Stick their tongues out at you? 

DQR: [00:13:02] No just at the -- I don’t know that they specifically stuck that tongue at me, I just happened catch someone sticking their tongue out as we would drive by.  But that’s the only overt incident that I can think of that would have reflected racism at the time.  

PL: [00:13:23] Except that you drove past the white school.  

DQR: [00:13:25] I drove past the white school, but at the time, as a child, you don’t know any different.  You don’t know why you’re riding past the white school.  You just know that you are riding past the white school to get to your elementary school.  

PL: [00:13:36] And it was a considerably further distance.  

DQR: [00:13:39] It was much further.  We would have to go into Charlottesville whereas the white kids just got to go to that little Cismont school right there in the neighborhood.  

PL: [00:13:50] And so after sixth grade, where did you go? 

DQR: [00:13:51] I went to Stone Robinson Elementary School.  

PL: [00:13:57] Tell me where Stone Robinson was? 

DQR: [00:14:00] It’s off of 250.  It’s in Keswick.  It’s in the Keswick area.  At that time, Shadwell area, in that area.  

PL: [00:14:10] And was that because Rose Hill ended in sixth grade, and you had to transfer to another school? 

DQR: [00:14:18] No, that was because that was when they desegregated.  I think they desegregated the schools and then the first time, it was voluntary.  There was a group that went before I went in seventh grade.  By that time, it was mandatory.  Schools were being desegregated.  

PL: [00:14:38] I see, so you didn’t have a choice? 

DQR: [00:14:41] No, I didn’t have a choice.  You wouldn’t have had a choice anyway if your parents chose to tell you was going to school. (laughs) 

PL: [00:14:49] Do you remember discussions with your parents about this desegregating of schools? 

DQR: [00:14:55] No, I just remember being told I was going to go to a new school.  [00:15:00] I wasn’t going back to Rose Hill, but I was going to a new school.  But I did know I was not going to be going to Jackson P.  Burley High School, ever.  

PL: [00:15:10] So, because you were -- what year would you have been in seventh grade? You were born in ’52.  

DQR: [00:15:21] That’s the early ‘60s, right? 

PL: [00:15:24] Surely, it would’ve been the early ‘60s.  

DQR: [00:15:25] I think it would’ve been in the early ‘60s.  So I’m not sure.  You start school when you’re six years old.  Right? First grade, seven, so that meant 13 maybe? Going on 12, 13 when I went to… 

PL: [00:15:43] Seventh grade, right.  And so that would’ve been like, ’65? Which probably makes sense because we know that Burley closed in ’67.  So maybe it was ’66 because you were only there one year, right? Stone Robinson?

DQR: [00:16:00] Yes, I was only at Stone Robinson one year.  

PL: [00:16:03] Before you went to Albemarle.

DQR: [00:16:05] No.  

PL: [00:16:05] No.  (laughs) 

DQR: [00:16:05] From Stone Robinson, we went to Jack Jouett.  I think, I can’t remember if it was called Jack Jouett Junior or Jack Jouett Middle School.  I don’t think middle school came until a later time.  I think it was Jack Jouett Junior High School at that time.  

PL: [00:16:21] I see.  So junior high school was eighth and ninth grades then? 

DQR: [00:16:25] Yes.  

PL: [00:16:28] And that too would’ve been an integrated school then? 

DQR: [00:16:31] Yes.  

PL: [00:16:31] So what were those experiences like for you, especially going to Stone Robinson after having been in a segregated school? 

DQR: [00:16:40] I don’t know how to put it.  It was different because -- I don’t know, I just felt that -- I was only a handful of Black students in that class.  Every class I’ve gone to, I’ve been a handful.  I’m like one of two students [00:17:00] in a class.  You know what struck me about being in the seventh grade? I’ll just throw that out there.  One of my white classmates had the same birthday that I had, and I just felt that was so unusual.  I didn’t know white people had the same birthdays as Black people.  Just something that stuck in my mind.  I remember coming home and saying so and so’s birthday is December the 21st, just like mine.  So, that was one thing that struck me.  

PL: [00:17:30] Did you make friendships across the color line? 

DQR: [00:17:35] Yes, I wouldn’t say friendships, but I don’t recall that person ever riding on the bus with us.  We were cordial, civil to one another in class, but I like to learn.  So, I was considered a good student because I enjoyed learning.  I paid more attention to my books.  

PL: [00:18:00] Do you think you were among a handful of Black students because of the classes were kind of ranked in terms of level of ability or perception? 

DQR: [00:18:13] It may have been.  As an elementary school -- student then, I wasn’t aware of that part of how you got to be in one teacher’s class as opposed to another teacher’s class.  I just remember that I was -- there weren’t a whole lot of Black students in my class.  I do remember that.  

PL: [00:18:37] Did that then increase your sense of shyness? 

DQR: [00:18:40] Yes, it did increase my sense of shyness.  My sense of paying attention to the books.  You were always under the scrutiny of people thinking you wasn’t supposed to be there to begin with.  So of course, [00:19:00] it was one of the motivations for behaving myself, paying attention in class, studying hard, and getting good grades.  That’s what I was about.  

PL: [00:19:13] And in Jack Jouett, was your experience kind of similar to Stone Robinson? 

DQR: [00:19:18] Yes, again, I have a vague notion that I was usually in classes where most of the kids were white.  I can’t remember, maybe two or three Black kids might have been in any of the classes, so then that might lend itself to what you were saying about being tracked.  

PL: [00:19:41] Well, we know there was a lot of tracking going on.  

DQR: [00:19:44] So I was a handful of people that was in whatever these classes were.  And I do recall, in Jack Jouett -- that I don’t remember whether it was in the eighth grade or ninth, I can’t remember when I had Ms. Bell.  I don’t know if she’s alive anymore.  [00:20:00] I remember going to the guidance counselor to set up my schedule for the following year, and I don’t remember who she was that asked me about going to college.  And I said to her, I don’t think I can go to college because my parents can’t afford to send me to college.  So, the guidance counselor signed me up for a lot of bookkeeping, occupational type classes, and I remember that Miss Bell got my schedule and she looked at it, and she called me up to her and she said Darlene, why are you taking all of these classes? She said, you can go to college.  I said Miss Bell, my parents don’t have money to send me to college.  She said, Darlene, don’t you know you can get loans? You can get grants, scholarships.  So, she took me and my schedule back down to the guidance counselor and changed it.  [00:21:00] So I became on that track of college-bound students.  I was already, what I feel, a little isolated from a lot of Black students because I was tracked into these classes in which I was a handful of people in the class.  So, once I got to Albemarle High School, I was really in classes where I was just maybe one of two or one of three students in that class.  The only class that I was in that had a lot of Black students, was when they put in the Black history class, and I took that.  

PL: [00:21:38] We’re going to get to that.  

DQR: [00:21:40] (Laughs) 

PL: [00:21:43] Tell me about this teacher, this Miss Bell.  

DQR: [00:21:43] Mrs. Bell.  All I can think of is that she was from Florida.  And I think that she graduated from the University of Virginia.  That’s the only thing I remember about her.  I just remember a tall, slender, blond-haired white lady that taught --

PL: [00:22:00] That cared about you.  

DQR: [00:22:02] Cared enough.  I can’t remember where -- I’m thinking it was social studies or was it world history? Maybe she was teaching world history.  I’m not sure which course, but she changed the trajectory of my life.  So, I always remember her name.  

PL: [00:22:21] And were there activities in Jack Jouett? 

DQR: [00:22:21] I’m sure there were activities.  

PL: [00:22:29] You must have been a cheerleader.  You were never a cheerleader?

DQR: [00:22:31] I was not involved in any activities.  My activity was going to school, making sure you behaved yourself, so there no talking -- parents didn’t deal with you misbehaving in class.  So you went to school, made sure you studied and had your grades, came home, did your homework and your chores.  As I said, there was really no room to.  If you wanted to participate in activities, and at that time, I wasn’t [00:23:00] aware of after-school activities anyway.  The transportation wouldn’t have been there.  Then high school, I believe that that was when it came to be.  I don’t know whether it existed the whole time, you may know, of the activity bus that would come around.  At that time, it was just for guys that I was aware of.  

PL: [00:23:24] I have not heard of that, an activity bus.  Have you, George? 

GEORGE GILLIAM:[00:23:29] I don’t think we’ve heard about that.  

PL: [00:23:30] No, I don’t think so.  

DQR: [00:23:31] I think there was an activity bus that would come and get some of the kids, but I’m not sure whether that activity bus -- I think, existed in high school.  I’m not sure it existed in junior high school.  I could be wrong.  It may have been there the whole time, I don’t know.  Like I said, I did not realize that I was in the process of making history, so I didn’t pay a lot of attention to the details of what was going on.  Like most teenagers, I was self-centered [00:24:00], I was only concerned with what affected me.  

PL: [00:24:04] Right, that makes perfect sense.  I had something in my mind that has gone out of my mind, but were you and your family, did you go down to watch any of the Burley games? Burley had such an incredible reputation.  

DQR: [00:24:28] Reputation, yes.  No.  I’m telling you, I don’t know about most Black families, from what I can see once you came home on Friday from school, that was it.  Your only social outlet was church.  As I grew older, maybe once in a while, we would catch, I think it was the Trailways bus to go into the Charlottesville to go to the movies.  That would be with one of my cousins.  But other than that, as a family, [00:25:00] I mean I always hated English class when they asked you to write about your summer because we didn’t go anywhere.  Summer was the fact that you didn’t have to go to school.  You didn’t have to get up and go to school.  That was summer, but we didn’t really go anywhere as a family for vacation or anything like that.  I don’t know that we would’ve found a place where we would’ve been welcomed anyway so, that was vacation.  

PL: [00:25:32] Probably more chores.  (laughs) 

DQR: [00:25:34] More chores and the fact that you knew when you got up you did not have to catch the bus to go to school.  That was it.  (laughs)

PL: [00:25:43] So when you went to Albemarle High School, you traveled quite a distance to get there.  Maybe not that much farther than Stone Robinson or Jack Jouett, right? 

DQR: [00:25:57] Yes, because Jack Jouett was right behind Albemarle High School [00:26:00], so it was pretty much the same distance.  

PL: [00:26:04] Right, and you spent three years at Albemarle? 

DQR: [00:26:06] Yes.  

PL: [00:26:10] From ’68 to ’71.  Is that right? 

DQR: [00:26:12] Yes.  

PL: [00:26:16] So, tell me what you remember about Albemarle High School other than studying and being a good student.  

DQR: [00:26:21] It was a big school.  To me, it was a big school.  A lot more white people.  As I said, I was on the college track, so I was, with the exception of the Black history class, most of the classes I might have been one of two, maybe one of three Black people in the class.  I remember taking Spanish.  I took a foreign language when I was on the track, and I got good grades.  I spent my time studying and reading, whatever, but then I think, let’s see.  [00:27:00] I made friends easily.  It wasn’t the kind of friends where we took each other to each other’s homes, but I had friends in the classes.  I had friends among Black students as well as white students or what I consider friends.  

PL: [00:27:19] What do you remember about the atmosphere in the classes around racial issues? 

DQR: [00:27:25] Well, since I was on a college track, that means from what I perceived, I was in more difficult classes.  We didn’t have time for all that stuff.  I paid attention to what was going on in my class.  Like I said, I liked school.  I liked learning.  School was my social activity.  Just school, I didn’t have to be involved in any other activities because getting away from home, going to school, intermingling with people whether there it was [00:28:00] close knit or not, just being in a different atmosphere.  

PL: [00:28:05] Did you get to know any of your teachers really well? 

DQR: [00:28:06] Some of them.  Ms. Fantino.  I think she was an English teacher that I got to know well.  I can’t remember what grade I was in English, but I know my sisters and brothers always told me that she was the first one to tell us that we’re not like you.  (laughs) She recognized that they were my siblings, but she was an English teacher.  She was very nice.  

PL: [00:28:39] Were there Black teachers that you had? 

DQR: [00:28:46] No.  The only Black teacher I had in high school was Ms. Johnson who was the Black history teacher.  Now, when I was at Jack Jouett, there was another teacher, a science teacher that was a Black teacher, I had her, [00:29:00] but I do not recall her name.  She was a good teacher, but she did not take any stuff off of anybody.  I remember that about her.  But I do not recall her name.  She was a good teacher, but she didn’t -- you just didn’t mess around in her class either.  Added incentive to behave myself when I was in class.  

PL: [00:29:25] So, I know from the yearbook (laughter) -- we do do some research.  That you were -- I’m going to tell you what it tells me in your yearbook, that you were a Library Club officer, a varsity cheerleader, that you worked on the yearbook staff, and you were an editor, and that you were senior class secretary treasurer.  

DQR: [00:29:51] Yes.  

PL: [00:29:51] So, you did get involved in something.

DQR: [00:29:53] I did get involved, and I’ll tell you why.  When I went to see my guidance counselor about applying to colleges [00:30:00] -- I can’t remember who told me, I think it was a she, she said Darlene you have the grades, but you need to get involved in some activities because those are things that colleges look at as well.  So, that’s when I got involved in the activities.  I don’t know why I did it all in the senior year.  I think that’s when -- the junior year before, that’s when you started getting serious about thinking about going to college.  

PL: [00:30:33] Chip German told us the same story yesterday.  (laughter) He was told he was going to go to college.  

DQR: [00:30:39] I know, if you’re going to college, they want to see a well-rounded…- 

PL: [00:30:44] Right, and he said he joined a bunch of clubs he had to do nothing in.  

DQR: [00:30:46] That’s what I did.  (laughter)

PL: [00:30:50] You must have done something as the secretary treasurer of the senior class.  Took notes at meetings or things like that? 

DQR: [00:30:54] Yeah, we went to meetings.  You know how kids are.  They weren’t that serious.  We went [00:31:00] to meetings.  I think Sterling Walker was the president.  I was the secretary treasurer, I don’t remember who else was involved.  It was nice to get out of class to do things like that.  The yearbook staff, I enjoyed that.  I got to know a lot more people, and you got to see how to put together the yearbook and stuff like that.  Now of course, now I told you I love to read so being part of the Library Club was no big deal.  

PL: [00:31:30] What did the Library Club do? 

DQR: [00:31:30] Well, at that time, we checked out books to kids, bring them back in, you have put them on the shelf and stuff like that.  That was the only time that I -- once I became involved with the Library Club, I had, at the time, one of my uncles was going to that school and that’s how I would catch a ride because this was something you did before school officially opened.  So that was one activity.  

PL: [[00:32:00] That you could do.

DQR: [00:32:00] Joe, Joe Bates would take me.  It was Joe, Otto, maybe Walter was in there too, Nathaniel Garland, and then myself.  The carload of us would go to school before.  And I was in that group because I worked in the library, and this was how I could get to the library before school officially opened for when most of the students come in.  So, take care of shelving books, just cleaning up and that kind of thing, and eventually somebody elected me, they decided I could be the president of the Library Club.  I loved it.  I love books.  I love being in the library.  Sitting at the desks and checking out books.  

PL: [00:32:48] Felt important.  (laughter) Tell us about cheerleading.  

DQR: [00:33:00] Oh cheerleading.  Trying out.  If I’m correct, I think someone came and talked to a few of us girls to actually going to try out for cheerleading, and some of us did.  

PL: [00:33:18] But you had never done this before? 

DQR: [00:33:21] I had never done it before.  I had a hard time with one of those things you had to do, the herkie or some kind of thing, I tried out and did the best I could.  I must admit, I wasn’t a fan of all the scrutiny, being a cheerleader.

PL: [00:33:41] You were not a fan?  

DQR: [00:33:41] I was in the spotlight a lot now and as a cheerleader.  In some ways, that was good.  Everybody knew who you were, it was good.  But you were also under scrutiny as far as how you behaved, how you responded to people and things, [00:34:00] and I tried to govern myself in the fact that I tried to treat people the way I wanted to them to treat me.  To see that I was just as human, I was just a person, just like they were.  And as I talked to Trinkle Jones, and she was the captain of the cheerleading squad and I asked her, I said did myself, and her name was Deni at the time, I said, did we take somebody’s place on the cheerleading squad? She said, no.  She said it was a 10-person squad and they added two more.  That was myself and Deni and it became a 12-person squad.  Because I always thought about that.  But it was nice to be able to stay after school, practice.  That was another social outlet.  It involved traveling to other schools, [00:35:00] seeing what -- I came from a finite world that was predominantly Black.  Go to desegregated schools and you think Albemarle is the “it” school, right? But then when you travel to other schools, you find that it’s not really the “it” school, it’s just one of the schools.  I remember going to Woodridge.  They had a nice school.  GW-Danville, that could’ve been a college campus as huge as that school was.  

PL: [00:35:34] So you would travel to those schools as part of the cheerleading team.  

DQR: [00:35:36] Yes.  I remember going -- did we go by car? 

PL: [00:35:42] Maybe by bus? 

DQR: [00:35:42] Bus maybe? I know maybe one we took a bus, but that’s about it.  Of course, Lane High School was the rival.  That was a rivalry.  

PL: [00:35:54] But you didn’t play Lane, did you? The teams didn’t play Lane, was my understanding.  

DQR: [00:36:00] No, I don’t think so.  I remember them, though, playing Lane High School for something.  I thought they did.  I remember cheerleading at the University of Virginia at one game.  So, there must have been a regional something, maybe? 

PL: [00:36:17] Maybe.  Maybe they came together for that.  

DQR: [00:36:18] Maybe, I don’t know.  My memory is foggy.  But I remember… 

PL: [00:36:24] Did you enjoy watching the games as a cheerleader? 

DQR: [00:36:26] Yes, I much preferred watching the games as a cheerleader. (laughs)

PL: [00:36:29] Than to doing the cheering? 

DQR: [00:36:31] It was hard to keep that smiling up and whatever when I’m more interested in the game.  But I did find out, as a cheerleader, I have no rhythm.  It was hard.  (laughs) I had no rhythm so that’s one other myth about Black people.  We don’t all have rhythm because I didn’t have it.  I couldn’t keep a beat to save my life.  I always seemed to be faster or slower one of it; took very conscientious effort on my part [00:37:00] to make sure I was in step with everybody else.  

PL: [00:37:04] So you were a cheerleader just for one year? 

DQR: [00:37:08] One year, yes.  

PL: [00:37:08] And that was clearly your senior year, so it was before you were going to go off to college.  

DQR: [00:37:12] Right.  

PL: [00:37:14] But it does seem from everything you’ve said about yourself, to sort of be out of character, that you would’ve been a cheerleader.  

DQR: [00:37:22] I know.  Like I said, I was amazed that I made it, and I have an idea about why I made it.  I have an idea about why Deni and I were put on the squad.  Because if you look at that picture, we blended right in.  

PL: [00:37:41] Yeah, why do you think.  You think you were put on the team because you blended in? 

DQR: [00:37:46] Yes, I do.  

PL: [00:37:46] In what sense did you blend in? 

DQR: [00:37:49] Skin color is real hard to tell.  If you’re way up there in the bleachers, and you’re looking down at the cheerleaders.  

PL: [00:37:57] Oh, that’s interesting.  

DQR: [00:37:59] I said I look at the cheer -- [00:38:00] I go back and look and it and ah, you can see that we pretty much all the same color in this picture.  That might have been the camera, I don’t know.  

PL: [00:38:11] Well, we have been told, as recently as yesterday, but we knew this story before yesterday, that this guy named Chip German, actually his given name was Robert, but everybody calls him Chip, went to school and when he first got on the bus to go to Albemarle High School from his neighborhood, he was concerned and upset -- this is his story, that all the Black kids were sort of gravitating to the back of the bus and white kids were in the front of the bus.  Not required, but it just sort of happened.  He says he got on the bus, [00:39:00] and he looked at that as a sophomore, and he said this doesn’t feel good to me.  So, he went to the back of the bus and got to know a lot of the Black kids and got friendly with the Black kids.  He says some of them had been complaining about the fact that there were no Black girls on the cheerleading team.  

DQR: [00:39:23] Oh okay, I was not aware of that.  

PL: [00:39:25] This is how he remembers it.  He said that he started a petition, and a lot of people carried this petition around the school to get students to sign to say that they wanted the cheerleading team to be desegregated.  That would’ve been the year before you entered the school, the year before you entered the school.  And nothing happened that year, but the next year…

DQR: [00:40:00] That would’ve been… 

PL: [00:40:02] Oh no, I’m sorry.  

DQR: [00:40:05] We were juniors because we would have to try out as juniors.  

PL: [00:40:08] Right, he did this the year…

DQR: [00:40:12] Which was in 10th grade.  So, nothing was done until the following year.  

PL: [00:40:12] That’s correct, and the team had 12 people on it.  And so, he thinks -- I don’t know that he absolutely knows, that it was the principal, Mr. Hurt, who decided that there were going to be a couple of Black girls on the team and that he sort of said, you’re going to accept these Black students on the team.  But you didn’t know about that? Which was probably good. 

DQR: [00:40:43] I didn’t know anything about the politics surrounding it.  Like I said, as a teenager, I was just more in tuned to what was affecting me.  

PL: [00:40:56] Did you have any problems on the cheerleading squad? 

DQR: [00:40:57] No, I did not.  

PL: [00:40:59] Everybody was friendly? 

DQR: [00:41:00] Yeah, no one, you know.  No one did -- no.  I can honestly say, no one said or did anything to me to draw attention to the fact that I was a Black cheerleader, that I was Black or maybe that I didn’t belong there.  I did not get that from anyone.  

PL: [00:41:24] Well, that’s good to hear.  

DQR: [00:41:29] As I said, and I’m going to be quite honest, I think it’s because they had gotten used to me.  I was in a lot of classes, like I said, where I was one, maybe two, so they were used to me.  I was considered a smart girl.  

PL: [00:41:50] And you didn’t make waves.  

DQR: [00:41:52] I didn’t make waves.  I didn’t bother anyone.  I tried to treat everyone the same way, whether they were Black or white.  

PL: [00:42:00] Do you have any thoughts or recollections about what the school administration did or did not do in terms of creating equal opportunity at the school? 

DQR: [00:42:17] Well, for one thing, you didn’t mention, I did go to Girls’ State.  I don’t know if I was the first Black girl that they selected, whatever that was girls state, I went with, her name was Cyn Salley.  I remember, I spent a week down in Radford College or a university, whatever it was called at that time.  

PL: [00:42:38] What year was that? 

DQR: [00:42:43] I don’t remember.  It was in high school.  (laughs) 

PL: [00:42:46] Junior year? 

DQR: [00:42:48] That’s what I’m thinking.  Maybe I was a junior? During that time? But I do remember there were a couple of -- there was one meeting where we had a [00:43:00] walk out of class to discuss some things going on, and I vaguely remember that I was more concerned about the fact that I wasn’t in class.  

PL: [00:43:09] But you did it.  You did walk out.  

DQR: [00:43:11] I did, I did go out -- so we weren’t punished after that meeting was over.  And then we went back to class, and no one said anything.  So, I assumed they had that from Mr. Hurt.  

PL: [00:43:24] What was the walkout about? 

DQR: [00:43:25] I don’t recall, I don’t recall.  I just remember a bunch of us being in the auditorium, but I don’t recall the exact nature of the meeting.  I don’t know whether it was concerning the cheerleading or concerning something else that was going on in the school.  

PL: [00:43:47] But it was a concerted effort of a group of students to protest and to leave the class.  

DQR: [00:43:56] It was at the protest -- yes.  

PL: [00:44:00] So, we do know that after this walkout was when the time came that the cheerleading squad was desegregated.  

DQR: [00:44:17] Okay.  

PL: those things.  

DQR: [00:44:21] I don’t know either.  Like I said, I wasn’t paying -- I didn’t realize I was -- I can’t put it into historical context because I didn’t realize that I was living…

PL: [00:44:33] Pathbreaker. 

DQR: [00:44:35] Yes, I didn’t realize that all of this was stirring the pot so to speak.  

PL: [00:44:41] Sure.  Did you feel you had support systems for yourself at Albemarle High School or did you feel maybe you didn’t need them? 

DQR: [00:44:50] I didn’t really feel like I needed them.  I didn’t need them.  

PL: [00:44:55] So we do know that there were different kinds of cheerleading squads [00:45:00] that there was something called “the” cheerleading squad.  There was something called the GAA Cheerleaders.  There was something called the Powder Puff Cheerleaders.  Do you remember any of that? 

DQR: [00:45:12] I don’t remember any of that.  I remember that there was a JV.  I know that should be younger group of cheerleaders for freshman and what they called the -- because you had the senior players.  Varsity and junior varsity I guess is what they had.  I guess they had some junior varsity cheerleaders.  

PL: [00:45:37] Right, I don’t know what the real differences were between those, but apparently, this is not ringing a bell for you either so…

DQR: [00:45:45] I wasn’t involved with junior varsity.  Junior varsity, was, I think, a springboard to you becoming -- trying out for varsity cheerleading, and you bring in people that way.  And then people try out for junior varsity and then probably make their way up to varsity.  

PL: [00:46:00] What do you remember about the tensions in the greater community around that time or even earlier.  You must have grown up at a time where there were segregated facilities, segregated water fountains?  

DQR: [00:46:19] I don’t recall any of that.  

PL: [00:46:22] You don’t.  

DQR: [00:46:24] I don’t recall any of that.  I don’t recall having to sit anywhere special when I was on the bus.  

PL: [00:46:37] That would be the bus to high school.  That would’ve probably ended by then, but movie theaters or things of that sort, do you…? 

DQR: [00:46:44] Now the school bus I was riding was predominantly Black kids on it anyway.  Maybe a few white kids might have been on it.  

PL: [00:46:53] But not enough.  

DQR: [00:46:53] I vaguely remember a few white kids, but I think it was predominantly Black students on my school bus.  But like riding the Trailways bus, [00:47:00] yeah, I don’t remember having to sit any particular place when I went up to go to the movies.  But you were always cognizant of the fact that there were certain places you couldn’t go.  You knew not to go.  

PL: [00:47:15] Where? Do you remember? 

DQR: [00:47:16] The Dew Drop Inn.  I remember that.  

PL: [00:47:18] The Dew Drop Inn.  

DQR: [00:47:19] That’s the one right there at the bottom of Pantops.  You knew that you were not welcome.  There used to be some kind of little restaurant there.  I remember that it was called the Dew Drop Inn.  You were not -- you knew… 

PL: [00:47:35] It was “Don’t” drop inn.  

DQR: [00:47:36] That’s right.  You were not welcome there.  I don’t recall having any problem -- I knew that -- I don’t recall any problems going to stores.  I knew there were stores that I didn’t particularly go into because I knew I couldn’t afford anything in those stores.  Wiley’s was one of them.  I think there was a Wileys retail store.  There was an A&N sporting goods store on the corner right there, and then there was a Wileys down there.  There was a Woolworths.  I loved going into Woolworths.  They had the best banana splits.  

PL: [00:48:22] This is in Charlottesville? 

DQR: [00:48:24] This is in Charlottesville when they had the main street, the highway ran down the center of the town before they bricked it all in.  That’s what I recall about that.  

PL: [00:48:34] And do you remember Vinegar Hill at all? 

DQR: [00:48:38] Vinegar what? 

PL: [00:48:38] Vinegar Hill? 

DQR: [00:48:40] No.  I’ve learned about it since, but like I said, that was my experience with Charlottesville, that little area right there.  I didn’t explore.  You didn’t go exploring.  

PL: [00:48:54] Tell me about this Black history class that you said… 

DQR: [00:48:57] It was a nice class.  [00:49:00] The teacher taught us about history, Black history per se, about the individuals who made inroads because of their academics.  

PL: [00:49:17] Who took that class? Was it mostly Black students? 

(music playing)

DQR: [00:49:22] That’s my phone.  Mostly Black students.  I didn’t see but a couple -- I don’t think I ever saw any white kids.  That’s just my phone.  

PL: [00:49:29] We’ll wait for it to…

DQR: [00:49:29] I’m sorry, I didn’t turn it down.  I’m going to turn it down now.  

PL: [00:49:34] Well if you do that, you’re going to lose your -- I guess you could take it with you.  But anyway, who took that class? Tell us again.  

DQR: [00:49:41] Mostly Black students were in the class.  We learned about our history.  

PL: [00:49:46] Do you know whether there was any pressure to create that class or how it came about that you even had that class? 

DQR: [00:49:53] I’m sure there was something to create that class, but I couldn’t give you any details.  [00:50:00] Maybe that’s what the meeting was about? 

PL: [00:50:04] Maybe.  Could be.  

DQR: [00:50:05] Setting up a petition to create a Black history class.  

PL: [00:50:10] Where did you go to college? 

DQR: [00:50:13] Virginia Tech.  

PL: [00:50:15] Oh, Virginia Tech! Okay.  

DQR: [00:50:17] And the same thing happened to me there.  

PL: [00:50:19] What do you mean? 

DQR: [00:50:21] I was one of two Black girls on the drill team at Virginia Tech.  (laughs)

PL: [00:50:29] Was that difficult for you? 

DQR: [00:50:31] Yes, because it was like how many thousands of people at that school? But it was one of those things, where again, it was they wanted some Black people to try out, and I made it.  

PL: [00:50:47] What did the drill team do? 

DQR: [00:50:49] We performed at half-time at the football games.  

PL: [00:50:52] So did you get up on people’s shoulders? 

DQR: [00:50:55] Not me.  You had the pom-poms and all that and once again, [00:51:00] my lack of rhythm got me into trouble sometimes, keeping in step.  I do recall that while I was on that drill team, we did have a little mini protest with the playing of the Dixie song.  Because we were in a parade, and we had to march down Main Street in Blacksburg, and we just marched.  We didn’t do any of the routine.  I recall a child was asking a parent, why aren’t they doing what everyone else is doing.  I don’t recall what she told him, but so, it made a little bit of an impact.  

PL: [00:51:40] Was there a reason you chose Virginia Tech as opposed to other possibilities? 

DQR: [00:51:44] I got funds to go there.  It was the least expensive.  I can’t remember. [00:52:00] I tried McAlister University.  I didn’t get in there, and I don’t think I got into the University of Virginia.  But I think that Virginia Tech accepted me and I did that one.  

PL: [00:52:12] But you applied then to predominantly white schools.  You didn’t apply to the Black schools in Virginia that a lot of people went back to and felt a sense of security in being there.  You made a different choice.  

DQR: [00:52:27] Right, well because I didn’t know of any Black schools at the time.  

PL: [00:52:32] Oh you didn’t? 

DQR: [00:52:32] I wasn’t familiar with Black colleges at the time I was deciding what college I wanted to go to.  

PL: [00:52:45] Did you study Education at that school or what did you major in when you went to college? 

DQR: [00:52:50] I majored in Spanish, and I minored in History.  

PL: [00:52:56] But you became a teacher.  

DQR: [00:52:58] I became a teacher, yes.  

PL: [00:53:00] So did you go on after that for like a masters in teaching or something? 

DQR: [00:53:05] No, I just have my bachelor of arts degree.  

PL: [00:53:11] And you were able to become a teacher with just that without the credentialing? 

DQR: [00:53:13] Yes, yes.  And while I was a Spanish major, I got the opportunity to travel to Spain in my junior year at Virginia Tech.  So that was another world-opening opportunity for me.  It was the first time I had been on a plane.  I took a train from Spain to Belgium.  It was the first time I had been on a train.  I took the train from -- it was a wonderful experience and a unique experience because I left Spain to go to Belgium, and I [00:54:00] met two girls who got me to Belgium.  And before I knew it, they were gone.  I think we had a stopover in Paris, and I didn’t speak any French.  And these two young ladies helped me on that trip to Belgium.  I’ve never forgotten that either.  I don’t recall who they were, just a thank you because I got to Belgium safely.  And the only reason I was in Belgium was because the family that I stayed with in Madrid took in students from all over the world, and one of the students -- two of the students were from Belgium and invited me to come visit with them in their country, and that’s what I did.  

PL: [00:54:45] Wonderful.  Those are great experiences, that you got to do that.  

DQR: [00:54:48] That was some great experiences.  

PL: [00:54:51] So are there -- is there anything else you would like to add to this interview about your experiences [00:55:00] growing up in this part of the world or in your schooling, through your school? 

DQR: [00:55:09] I think that in the midst of our conversation, you have learned that I have experienced more of the world, more typically so than a lot of my classmates at that time that were Black.  And so, my view, like I said, is more wide view.  And then becoming a teacher, I taught very diverse students.  And so, it didn’t leave room for a lot of using my race or whatever to do or say whatever because I was just busy teaching Spanish to students who were Black.  Some were from Somalia, some were from Iran, some were Hispanic.  [00:56:00] It was just a conglomerate.  So, I think that as a result of my experiences, I have empathy.  I learn to walk in other folks’ shoes and not just my own, and my mantra has always been because I do believe in God that I try to do unto others as I would like others to do unto me.  And I try to treat people the way I want to be treated.  I want to be looked at as a human being and that I am whatever I choose to do that I can do it just as well as anyone else no matter their skin color or their background or their ethnic group origins.  That’s all I have to say about that.  

PL: [00:56:48] I’m sure you were a great role model and teacher.  I just have that sense.  It was just wonderful.  

DQR: [00:56:53] Thank you.  Anything else? [00:57:00] I don’t know that I had a whole lot to add, guys.  I don’t think my experiences were typical.  

PL: [00:57:06] You think they were atypical? 

DQR: [00:57:08] Yes.  Because I didn’t get a lot of the verbiage.  I didn’t get called a lot of names or stuff like that.  

PL: [00:57:15] And you’ve heard that from other people that they did.  

DQR: [00:57:17] Others, yes.  

PL: [00:57:23] You were just oblivious because you were a student and you were studying.  

DQR: [00:57:25] I was oblivious, yes.  I was only concerned with things that immediately impacted me.  That other stuff I filtered out.  

PL: [00:57:37] And did your siblings have largely the same attitudes or…? 

DQR: [00:57:40] I don’t think so.  I heard from one of my sisters that she was called names and had popcorn tossed at her and stuff like that when she was cheerleading.  Because both of my sisters went on to become cheerleaders at Albemarle High School too.  

PL: [00:58:00] And how close in age would they had been to you? 

DQR: [00:58:00] One is right behind me.  She lives in St. Louis.  

PL: [00:58:07] That’s really interesting.  That you were the first and you didn’t experience any of that personally.  

DQR: [00:58:15] No, I did not.  I don’t know why.  I really don’t know why.  I didn’t get called names.  If they called me a name, it was not within my hearing.  If they talked about me, it was not within my hearing if they said negative things, it was not within my hearing.  

PL: [00:58:36] George, what questions? Do you have questions you want to add? 

GG: [00:58:39] I feel like you covered everything I can think of.  

PL: [00:58:45] Lorenzo, did you want to ask anything? 

LORENZO DICKERSON: [00:58:47] I’m curious.  What school did your parents attend growing up? 

DQR: [00:58:57] What school did I? 

PL: [00:58:58] Parents.  

LD: [00:58:58] Your parents? 

DQR: [00:59:00] I don’t know.  I think it’s the Cismont school.  There was a school down Cismont Road.  I think that’s where they went to school.  I think, if I recall correctly -- I helped my mom get her GED, I do recall that.  I know my dad went maybe until eighth grade and my mother went to eleventh grade.  Like I said, they did not graduate from high school.  

LD: [00:59:28] And do you remember neighborhood sports growing up? Neighborhood football, baseball? 

DQR: [00:59:33] Baseball.  Cismont Braves.  I remember attending one of those games.  Because we called it The Center.  I don’t know what that road is called now.  Cismont Road, you would go down there, and I think that’s where the school used to be, the old Black school.  They had a field where the guys played baseball and I think the women had a softball team.  They were good too.  They were really good.  [01:00:00] My dad always said a couple of the players that played baseball had it been a different time, they could’ve been professional players.  But yeah, I do remember that, going to The Center.  But it wasn’t something that we did every week.  It was just that one time that I remember attending a game down there.  I’m sure for the community and the people that were around, that was a good social outlet.  Yeah, I do remember the Cismont Braves.  I remember that.  

PL: [01:00:33] We are digging up some deep memories.  

DQR: [01:00:36] Yes, I remember the Cismont Braves, yes.  I remember my grandfather lived on that road.  I know the guys would always get over in that field to play baseball.  As we call him, [Boo Brunner?] used to live right there.  That big field right across from where my grandfather, Otto Bates’ house.  That used to be a big field and that’s where the guys from the neighborhood would play baseball.  [01:01:00]

LD: [01:01:04] And which theater did you typically go to if you came into town? 

DQR: [01:01:09] Paramount Theater and go in by the side door and up to the top balcony to the movies.  

PL: [01:01:17] Did that grate on you at all or that was just what people did? 

DQR: [01:01:23] At the time, that’s just the way it was.  And when I think about it, we had the best view anyway.  (laughs)

PL: [01:01:30] I’ve heard other people say that.  

DQR: [01:01:35] There was never a whole lot of people up there.  (laughs) 

PL: [01:01:40] You know, when they do the opera now from there, you know that they do the Met Live, they call it the Met Live, and they’ve taped the opera and you can watch it live.  The musicians always up to the top because they say the acoustics are better up there.  (laughs) 

DQR: [01:02:00] But yeah, I’m saying we had the best view.  

LD: [01:02:04] If I could have one last quick question, were Mr. and Mrs. Logan at Albemarle, do you know, during the time you were there? Did they come in shortly after? 

DQR: [01:02:15] I recall Mr. Logan’s name.  I don’t know Mrs. Logan.  I know Mr. Logan.  Was he a shop -- he did something in shop teacher or something? He taught something there, but it was not something in my field, so I’m not sure.  But I’m familiar with his name, Mr.  Logan, yes.  

LD: [01:02:42] That’s all I had.  

PL: [01:02:45] Are there other people you think we should be talking to that you can think of would maybe -- who went to Albemarle who you think maybe would have interesting stories to share? 

DQR: [01:02:58] Well, one individual has passed.  [01:03:00] I’m sure you could have talked with Walter White.  

PL: [01:03:03] Oh yes, well we know, right.  

DQR: [01:03:05] Maybe Otto Bates? 

PL: [01:03:09] You provided his name, right? 

LD: [01:03:11] Yes.  

DQR: [01:03:12] He played football at Albemarle, but he graduated -- Ernest Bates, they both were in my graduating class.  Another person is my sister Theresa, and I’ll pass on the information to her.  

PL: [01:03:30] She was a year behind you? 

DQR: [01:03:33] She was a year behind me.  

PL: [01:03:35] And she also was a cheerleader you said.  

DQR: [01:03:38] Yes, she was a cheerleader.  

PL: [01:03:40] And what is her last name? 

DQR: [01:03:44] (pause) Wilson.  Theresa Wilson, sorry.  (laughs) 

PL: [01:03:47] Tell her you talked to us, and it was not -- hopefully not too painful.  

DQR: [01:03:55] I know she’s planning to visit in October, so I’ll let her know.  

PL: [01:03:59] Is she the one in, did you say St. Louis? 

DQR: [01:04:00] Yes, St. Louis.  That’s where she lives right now.  

PL: [01:04:13] All right, so there was somebody -- I’m so sorry I can’t remember her name, who I’ve been trying to call who Phylissa Mitchell told me to reach to, Deni Mitchell I guess I’m supposed to say, who was a basketball player.  I’m forgetting her name.  

DQR: [01:04:35] Marie Baker Whitten? No? 

PL: [01:04:40] She was apparently a very good basketball player.  She lives in Florida, but she was coming up for a wedding, and we had hoped to get to her, but she has not returned my calls.  

DQR: [01:04:53] Okay, I do not know who that is.  The only basketball player I remember, and she’s in the yearbook, was Marie Baker.  [01:05:00] Her married name is Whitten.  W-H-I-T-T-E-N.

LD: [01:05:08] I know Marie.  Because her daughter and I graduated high school together.  

PL: [01:05:11] Local? 

LD: [01:05:11] Yes, Marie’s here.  

DQR: [01:05:12] Yes, Marie is here.  So, she might know -- I just remember that Marie played basketball.  

PL: [01:05:18] Maybe we should try -- because we don’t really have too many…

DQR: [01:05:23] And Marie might have more information on some of the whispers and all the politics that was going during the time because she graduated with me too.  

PL: [01:05:34] I have to say, I’m glad to hear your story because well, it says a lot about you is the bottom line.  It says a lot about you and your values and your focus and what you were about, and you weren’t going to be waylaid by anything going on.  

DQR: [01:05:56] Thank you.  No, I was not.  No way.  No way.  [01:06:00] We are human beings, and we all bleed the same blood.  I feel like people today need to remember that as well.  

PL: [01:06:13] And so that’s why these interviews are important because they become…  

DQR: [01:06:19] It doesn’t matter what color you, when you are cut, the blood is still red.  The blood is still red.  

PL: [01:06:27] So, do you want to comment at all on where you feel we are today as a country? 

DQR: [01:06:31] We are in a rough place.  It’s like there’s been this undercurrent that has been simmering for generations it seems to me, and we had a president that emboldened these people to express that.  So now, it’s all coming up out of the woodwork.  It’s like [01:07:00] familiarity breeds contempt.  Once the majority population has gotten to know all of these so-called immigrants that have come into the country, they’re fearful of whatever perceptions they’ve had, especially negative perceptions, they’ve all come to the forefront because they’re fearful of losing ground, whether it be power, money, jobs, whatever.  

PL: [01:07:40] Great white replacement.  

DQR: [01:07:41] Yes.  They didn’t want the other theory so now they’re working on this theory.  I would like to say this to anybody, whatever we’re fighting and arguing over, we are all headed in the same direction [01:08:00], and it’s six feet under and everything that you’re arguing and fussing about, or think that you own or you think is owed to you, you can’t take none of it with you.  There’s a reason why at every burial site, it says dust to dust, ashes to ashes.  It’s there for a reason because that’s where we’re all headed.  And none of this stuff is permanent.  None of it.  You can’t take any of it with you.  I would like to, but I know that I can’t take none of it with me.  (laughs) So, that’s my sentiment on life as I’ve gotten older.  

PL: [01:08:48] Thank you, indeed.  We agree with you around this table.  The question is: how do we get others to understand that, and it’s quite a struggle.  It’s quite a struggle.  

GG: [01:09:00] Apparently, he’s running for president again. 

DQR: [01:09:04] And it’s hard to be optimistic right now.  But as human beings, got to have hope.  Hope.  Like I tell my Sunday School class, they wouldn’t get to share my personality if things hadn’t changed.  If certain people want to go back to wherever -- what are we going to do? Sit around and look at each other all the same color and doing the same thing? How boring is that? That is very boring? Don’t you think so? And besides, if you don’t want the browning of America, then you need to stop getting together with, Caucasian people need to stop getting together with? You know? You brought it on yourselves.  

GG: [01:10:00] By 2039, whites are going to be the minority.  

DQR: [01:10:11] And that is the biggest fear that’s governing all of this.  That’s the biggest fear.  The United States has already celebrated its 200 birthday, right? All great civilizations start declining after their 200th birthday.  

PL: [01:10:27] I say that.  

DQR: [01:10:29] And we are no better than any other civilization.  I really take issue with the statement Make America Great Again and about blessing America.  God has already blessed America.  And why do we need to be great again? Why can’t we just be a wonderful place to live where people get along? 

PL: [01:10:53] I mean great again? What does that mean? 

DQR: [01:10:56] What does that mean? Great again means I shouldn’t be having -- saying a [01:11:00] single word that I’m saying.  That’s what it feels like to me.  That’s what it feels like to me when people are saying when they say they want America to be great again.

LD: [01:11:11] Great for whom? 

DQR: [01:11:12] As if somehow all the immigrants that have come to this country has tainted it in some way, and that’s not right.  Because all the people in this country are immigrants, including the Caucasians.  They are immigrants, and they’ve mistreated the Native Americans, so that’s who they need to be doing some right things for: the Native Americans of this country.  

PL: [01:11:41] They’re the only ones who aren’t immigrants, right, to the country? 

DQR: [01:11:47] Well, I’ve had my say, I’ve made my political commentary.  

GG: [01:11:51] It’s good.  (laughter)

 

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